All this talk about what "name" means got me thinking about this passage in the bible.
Whatever you ask in my name, I will do it, that the Father may be glorified in the Son; if you ask anything in my name, I will do it. Jn 14:13I don't think people really take this saying to heart. Some people think that God doesn't answer their prayers, perhaps because they are too sinful, or perhaps there is not a God to answer them. Or maybe he only answers certain prayers.
This doesn't seem right to me. I would like to take Jesus at his word. He said "whatever" and "I will,” not maybe. And it is said in other passages as well. For instance,
And whatever you ask in prayer, you will receive, if you have faith. Mt 21:22It doesn't seem like there are any limitations or conditions placed on what you ask for, but that you ask in faith. Maybe we should say, then, that if prayers are not answered it is due to lack of faith...But still I think some people would say that they have asked in faith and did not receive. There may be another consideration.
Let's grant that you have asked in faith, but I say, "Are you sure to whom you asked?" Were you asking the "right" Lord? Think of Elijah's test in 1 Kings 18. He told the Israelites that his Lord was God and that the prophets of Ba'al (a word meaning Lord) were serving a false God. He told the prophets of Ba'al to pray to their God and he would pray to his God, then, whosever God answered the prayer would show himself to be the true God. The prophets of Ba'al prayed for hours to their Lord and their sacrifice was not set on fire. However, Elijah prayed to his Lord, and,
Then the Lord fell, and consumed the burnt offering, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up all the water that was in the trench. 1Kg 18:38I think it's a good consideration, "Does your God answer your prayers?" If not, maybe your God is a false God as well.
Ember
What are you talking about Ember? Of course the prophets of Ba'al were serving a false lord! Ba'al is a pagan God. That was the problem wasn't it? ...that some of the Israelites went off and began to worship the pagan God Ba'al instead of YHWH? Or are you saying that the other Israelites thought they WERE worshipping YHWH, but their worship practices had gone so far astray that their idea of YHWH was more like a pagan God then the real YHWH? If so, your interpretation makes me feel uncomfortable. Do you have any evidence to support it?
ReplyDeleteSupport? Sure where do I start? I’ll just give you a couple of quotes I found on the internet in order to keep it simple.
ReplyDeleteSince Ba‘al simply means 'LORD', there is no obvious reason for which it could not be applied to YHWH as well as other gods. In fact, Hebrews generally referred to YHWH as Adonai ('My LORD') in prayer. From Wikipedia - Ba'al as a divine title in Israel and Judah
And,
The word Baal is derived from the common Hebrew verb (ba'al 262), own, rule, possess. The verb is even used to indicate the husband's relationship to his wife (Deuteronomy 24:1) and is applied to the relationship between God and man, "For your husband (ba'al) is your Maker..." (Isaiah 54:5) - http://www.abarim-publications.com/Meaning/Baal.html
So when the word Ba’al is used in the Bible, it could indeed be referring to a specific “pagan” god named Ba’al, but, especially when it is referring to the worship of Israelites, it also could be interpreted that some were worshiping Ba’al, the Lord, whom they believed to be YHWH.
I put the word pagan in parentheses because I think it is a label we should be careful with as well. When Christians call someone’s god pagan, or call a people pagan it is making a judgment upon them that their god or gods are false. The word pagan comes from the Latin, peganus, meaning “country dweller”, “rustic”. However, the people who believe in them do not view them as such, otherwise, why would they worship them/him/her? In our present day some people may identify themselves as following a pagan religion, but I don’t think they mean to say their religion is false. So, the Israelites were calling their Lord, Ba’al, but they didn’t necessarily view this Ba’al as being a pagan deity
You say above, “Your interpretation makes me uncomfortable.” It should! That shows you are getting the point! I don’t think Jesus meant to make the Pharisees comfortable when he told them basically the same thing, i.e., that their Father was not God, but the devil. (Jn 8:41-44). He told them that they were erring in their relationship with God and not truly knowing him.
“. . . it is my Father who glorifies me, of whom you say that he is your God. But you have not known him.” (Jn 8:54)
Why are we any different? It is easy to call yourself a Christian and follower of Christ and feel justified that you are not an idolater and to say they, everyone else, are idolaters. But perhaps we should be more careful in our worship. Look to the fruits. When the fruits are perfect they have fallen from the perfect tree.
...And Querci, Don’t worry if you think that maybe, at times, you have made God into an idol. The great thing is that we are always forgiven for our mistakes. All we need to do is admit it, forgive ourselves and each other, and try to do better. With God’s grace we can all be saints!
Ember, I think I owe you an apology. In 1 John, the apostle seems to corroborate your interpretation:
ReplyDelete"He who has the Son has life; he who has not the Son of God has not life...And this is the confidence which we have in him, that if we ask anything according to his will he hears us... And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, to know him who is true; and we are in him who is true, in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life. Little children, keep yourselves from idols." (1 John 5:12;14;20-21)
The name Elijah is interesting. It translates as "Yahweh is God" from "Yah is El". Sometimes translated as "The Lord is my God" (CCC 2582).
ReplyDeleteSo Elijah was showing who's Lord was God. His Lord is God, his YHWH is God. His Ba'al was able to lite the sactrifice not their Ba'al. Therefore his Lord is God. His Lord is not separated from theirs by a name alone. It seems rather to be a relationship. When Elijah says, "My Lord", that Lord is not an idol. That Lord hears him and answers his prayers.